Anyone Have the Weather Forecast for Hell?
School system refuses to release new deputy superintendent's salary figure without a written request.
It started with a simple request: How much will Renee Foose make as the new deputy superintendent for the Baltimore County Public Schools system?
Patch wasn't even the first to ask the question. That honor belongs to Liz Bowie at The Baltimore Sun.
Not a contract or piece of paper. Just a few numbers. It's a request fielded routinely by innumerable state and county government agencies. Nearly every agency simply releases the number—no muss, no fuss.
But not Baltimore County schools.
"We're not like everyone else," said schools system spokeswoman Phyllis Reese after I asked her why her agency requires a written Public Information Act request for the salary figure.
The request comes, coincidentally, during national Sunshine Week, a period set aside by the American Society of Newspaper Editors and other media to remind the public of the importance of laws such as the Maryland Open Meetings and Public Information Acts.
These laws ensure that government operations are open and accessible to the public. The law does not grant special privileges to the press and you won't find the words "reporter" or "journalist" or "media" in its text.
Reese said the school system has a policy requiring written requests for salary information. She could not provide a copy of that policy after Patch asked for it. Later, Reese said she wasn't "sure (the policy) was even written down."
Reese did forward an e-mail from Margaret-Ann F. Howie, the attorney for the schools system. In it, Howie copied and pasted a portion of the state Public Information Act.
The section she quotes states that "a person or governmental unit that wishes to inspect a public record shall submit a written application to the custodian." It goes on to add that a member of the public need not file a request if "the person or governmental unit seeks to inspect a public record listed by an official custodian."
In other words, if the agency knows the information is public then it should simply release it.
Reese, however, repeated several times that a written request was necessary to learn the salary. But if one doesn't want the contract, what document should be requested?
"The salary is the document," Reese said, adding that the salaries are private information related to employees.
Reese added that she would "write the number down on a piece of paper and give it to you" or type it into an e-mail, thus creating the document the public should request. She couldn't simply speak the number because she was concerned she might "make a mistake and misplace a decimal," she said.
Salaries as private information is not a position supported by the law, according to Assistant Attorney General Robert McDonald, the state's resident legal expert on public records laws.
McDonald said salaries of public officials and employees are not considered private or personnel records and are considered information that is available to any member of the public who pay those salaries with their taxes.
The Public Information Act, however, does not apply to questions.
"The law contemplates a request for a document," McDonald said, adding that the courts and the law generally define that as a photograph, video or other tangible document.
"It's really about documentary materials," McDonald said.
But the law cuts both ways.
A simple question doesn't trigger the Public Information Act.
But the public cannot use the act to get that question answered.
"There's no obligation to answer an informational question," McDonald said. "Except that the agency might want to stay on (the media's) good side."
McDonald said he was puzzled by any agency's decision to require a written request for salary information. When the attorney general's office provides training to government agencies around the state, the advice is to simply release information that is known to be public—something that is also in state law.
So that leaves us with that simple request we started with.
How much is the schools system paying Renee Foose?
Without a written request, the public will not know. It's a request Patch is not writing because we think government agencies should answer simple questions from the public.
Could we get the salary with a written request? Yes. But by that standard the school system could then require us—and you, the public—to submit a written request for all information they possess and residents pay for through taxes.
Reese has been clear: without a written request "it will be a cold day in hell before you get the information," she said.
Tony Solesky
7:29 am on Wednesday, March 16, 2011
Shame on you Bryan for even asking !!!!!!!!!!!
Sue Battle-McDonald
7:31 am on Wednesday, March 16, 2011
BCPS is amazing in their stupidity. Let's also request the salary of the wonderful "cold day in hell" Phyllis Reese! What school of media relations did this woman attend? Where did Hairston find her? This could be very entertaining.
Great reporting, Mr. Sears.
SEEKA Boo
8:51 am on Wednesday, March 16, 2011
Ms. Reese, usually the decimal point goes to digits from the right but if you feel inclined to go further to the left then please let me be the first to thank you for doing a community service!!!! Now, as for your job, Ms. Reese, I am clearly qualified to do it just by helping you with Ms. Foose' pay rate. I can even do scientific notation without a calculator and I would expect the same level of education for our underpriviliged children.
SEEKA Boo
8:52 am on Wednesday, March 16, 2011
"to" was supposed to be "two digits"
Stuart Merenbloom
9:16 am on Wednesday, March 16, 2011
It appears as if Dr. Joe ( Hairston that is) thinks he must be king of BCPS or close to it. Let's take a look at some items"
* a few years ago he allowed the board to deny pay increase for teachers
* he allowed a former employee to "sell" the AIM system to other educational systems. Please note that the employee created the AIM system while still working for BCPS
* he paid one of his buddies big bucks to provide a service to BCPS
With all the pressures on teachers to get students to do well on their MSA's, coupled with the state wanting to take monies away from pensions, coupled with the fact that teacher salaries in general are not commensurate with salaries of other professionals with similiar credentials, adding in the fact that BCPS is top heavy with very high paid "administrators" (non teaching positions that "help formulate curriculum, train new teachers, provide on-going professional development etc...it is no wonder that BCPS does NOT want to let the public know that these "administrators" are raking in the big bucks.
ed
9:34 am on Wednesday, March 16, 2011
typical BCPS
Fred Schillfarth
12:40 pm on Wednesday, March 16, 2011
I think it is high time to bring the school system back under the autharity of the bounty council. The have more or less been that way as far as I can remember. I know this as a past BCPS employee.
This is why I think it would be a good Idea to start electing the board members like Harford county does.
Lauretta Nagel
2:27 pm on Wednesday, March 16, 2011
Whoa, this Board's administration keeps looking worse by the day, doesn't it?
Sue Battle-McDonald
5:13 pm on Wednesday, March 16, 2011
I agree with all of you; still can't believe she gave him the "cold day in hell" comment. That's just so bad it's funny. This woman should be the poster child for what NOT to do in media relations. And we already knew BCPS was the poster child for laughably bad management.
Kudos again to Bryan Sears for his reporting. He should get hazard pay for covering BCPS.
John
5:33 pm on Wednesday, March 16, 2011
This would be hilarious were it not for the fact that this is the latest in a long list of acts of hubris for the leadership of BCPS. Thank you, Mr. Sears for the article. I am stunned by the lack of transparency within our PUBLIC school system. I sincerely hope that change is coming. My children deserve better from those who lead this system. Since our lawmakers kept an elected school board from being possible, I hope the study they conduct reports accurately and thoroughly on the behavior exhibited by leadership the last several years. What a shame!
John
5:40 pm on Wednesday, March 16, 2011
By the way...I love the headline!
Jacqueline Wisner, MD
5:46 pm on Wednesday, March 16, 2011
I agree with Ms. Battle -McDonald. The "Cold Day in Hell" comment lacks any kind of diplomacy that I would expect from a public relations professional and is a highly defensive remark. ALL PUBLIC OFFICIALS, whether it be on School Boards or in the Senate's office should have their salaries made public. They are paid by the public and therefore the public should know what they are paying for. Anything short of that is deceptive.
LuLu Edwards
6:24 pm on Wednesday, March 16, 2011
I think the negative comments about Reese are really not warranted. She's doing her job. I've worked with the media for years and its standard procedure to ask for a PIA request for public information. Its not a big deal, an email requesting it would have surficed; Bryan I'm surprised at you. You have always been so professional and a top journalist. I think you are wrong in this case. Besides I'm sure the Baltimore Sun had to submit a PIA request to get the information. Give her a brake.
LaWanda Edwards
John
7:11 pm on Wednesday, March 16, 2011
Ms. Reese's comments stand alone and speak volumes. Thank you again, Bryan!
Bryan P. Sears
8:47 pm on Wednesday, March 16, 2011
LaWanda:
Thanks for your comment.
I remember you from when you worked as a spokeswoman for various state agencies and for Senate President Thomas V. Mike Miller and the Bartenfelder county executive campaign.
I'm almost positive that you have even released salary information to me (maybe when you were at DJS?) and I know I was never asked for a PIA request. Why? Because it's black letter law that public employee salaries and benefits and job descriptions are public.
The Maryland Public Information Act covers the request for a document only and can be held as long as 30 days.
We did not want a document.
The fall back argument seems to be "why not just write the letter?"
But an even better question is, why not just follow the law?
Wouldn't have been just as easy to simply release the dollar amount? Why should the public have to beg for information that the law already says is public?
Doesn't a requirement like this turn a law that was designed to promote openness and transparency on its head?
Why not follow the advice of Attorneys General Joseph Curran and Doug Gansler and immediately release information that is known to be public upon request?
Tony Solesky
6:50 pm on Wednesday, March 16, 2011
Yeah Bryan you A$$ !! Do what you are told. By the way I have a Question. When you guys report on any story what makes a report official? Is it the truth or what you are told by someone? What about them makes the word official? I have trouble with objective reporting sometimes when it quote officials as oppossed to just reporting the truth ofthe matter.
Buzz Beeler
8:46 pm on Wednesday, March 16, 2011
Tony, lighten up. You did an admiral job of posting of comments regarding the dog attack on Amenda, the young child. No need to diminish your creditability in this matter.
Brian is right on in this issue. Government is for the people and by the people. If you recall when Kamenetz appointed his cabinet members, their salaries were listed.
Do you also recall that Harriston awarded a $4 million no bid contract, which is a violation of the County Charter, Sec. 715 which calls for any county contract over $25,000 must be sent out on bid.
Do you recall that Council Chairman Olszewski wrote a PUD that cost the taxpayers $21 million with a return of $1.6 million that went to his best friend.
I would hope that you demonstrate the same ability as you did in the dog bite story and temper you emotions a little. You lost me right after the reference to the body part.
Doug Donovan
10:08 pm on Wednesday, March 16, 2011
(The following was an e-mail reply from Phyllis Reese about the article.)
Bryan,
I just read your story about our conversation with righteous indignation. The last sentence in your article is your exact quote to me when I reiterated to you that I would be happy to forward Dr. Fosse’s salary to you once a formal request was submitted for that information. I even shared with you that Dr. Foose was scheduled to officially sign her contract with the school system yesterday and you retorted with, “That’s a lie. You are just trying to stall for time”. You then reflected on the same process for securing information when you were employed by a previous employer stating that you had to wait for 28-30 days to receive the requested information. I then assured you that you would not have to wait that long…that I could possibly have the information for you tomorrow (meaning today) if you would submit your request in writing. That’s when you said to me, “It will be a cold day in hell when I submit a formal request to you for information I could get over the phone.” I said to assure the accuracy of the information, I would put the figure in writing on a piece of paper or send to you via e-mail.
It was your emotionalism that sparked your “cold day in hell” remark to me. The falsity you used in the last statement of your article at my expense to evoke public reaction was an unethical move by a reporter!
Phyllis Reese
Chief Communications Officer
Buzz Beeler
10:35 pm on Wednesday, March 16, 2011
Doug, why don't you call Ms. Reese and ask her about the ethical conduct of Mr. Hariston.
Let me count the ways. Recently a multimillion dollar mistake regarding the boondoggle in a construction issue. How about the $4 million no bid contract involving Mr. Hariston?
By the way, under the County Charter, Sec. 715, any contract exceeding $25,000 must be sent out on a bid.
Did I mention the AIM scandal? Does that fall under unethical conduct? According to some teachers I talked to its apples across the board and not an orange in site.
She refers to a particular quote, but I prefer the one that goes something like, "Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks."
Ann
7:47 pm on Sunday, March 20, 2011
A typical spun CYA by the dictator's spokesperson. What did she say in her response? It's always double talk. Since she was hired, as a friend of Dezmon's, she has provided inaccurate information and hidden "Doc" from the media. Meanwhile, her office puts out daily "Dr. Hairston won an award" emails and notices. The school system is supposed to be about our children not the top leadership displaying smoke and mirrors. Bryan keep going with your reporting, but please find out how much Phyllis Reese makes. I'm sure soon the Board will create a policy to deny requests and it will be in violation of the law, but so what. They believe they are above the law anyway!
Tony Solesky
7:31 am on Thursday, March 17, 2011
Buzz,
I know Byran from reporting on Dominic. I am being sarcastic I fully support him. I know two wrongs don't make a right. It sounds like he refused to be belittled by someone hiding behind policy and calling it- Iam just doing my job. If that is the job abolish the position because you are not doing it very well.
I feel strongly that in their present forms administrators are not needed any more. They are nothing more then a high payed barrier. All are tasked with greater aptitude in what they can't do for you. I always look people like that in the eye and tell them straight out. " All you are doing is telling me what you can't do for me". I want to talk to the person who understands it is their job to tell me what they can do for me." They are not allowed to interact in a manner befitting proper human interaction and converstaion. They could be replaced by a website much more inexpensively. I would rather talk to tech support in India. These are jobs out of tradition that serve no purpose in terms productive value to address real concerns in the BCPS. I would fully support K K move to technology in this venue and belive it would creat better interaction and results as does Patch.
As far as my comments to Byran I hope you knew it was sarcasism you A$$
Bryan P. Sears
8:34 am on Thursday, March 17, 2011
Tony:
Thanks for your message but it was really unnecessary on my part. As you said, we first met when I reported on the incident involving your son. We spent a lot of time together so I had an advantage that many here don't because I could hear your voice as I read your words.
Some times sarcasm doesn't translate in the written form as well as we might like but I totally got it.
I appreciate you and Buzz and others weighing in on this.
Tony Solesky
4:07 pm on Thursday, March 17, 2011
Byran,
Anybody that sees my spelling and sentence structure should know I am the internet version of Norm Crosby. Hell I don't know how to take half my own comments. Buzz is a good guy and he had your back. You have to like that, I do.
Buzz Beeler
5:48 pm on Thursday, March 17, 2011
Tiny, sorry bout (sic) that. At my age that's the first thing to go, or maybe the second. By the way what story are we talking about anyway? Just kidding.
I wonder if Doug will hear from Ms. Reese again?
pablo
10:15 am on Friday, March 18, 2011
Two reporters ask the same question and the information is released at the same time in respect for a process and both reporters. The school system followed a policy and responded within guidelines. Last time I checked, neither Liz or Brian worked for the school system and like it or not,are subject to the information action request policy. This is news?
Bryan P. Sears
10:24 am on Friday, March 18, 2011
Pablo:
Thanks for your comment.
The question isn't about where someone works but what the law is and can an agency have a policy that is in conflict with state law.
The law in question governs requests for a document. Patch did not request a document. We asked "How mush will Renee Foose be paid as deputy superintendent."
It's a question that every other agency in county government and most in the state that I have dealt with simply answer when asked because, by law, salaries of government employees are public information — not just for members of the media but for all members of the public.
Regarding this "policy" cited by the schools system — they have acknowledged that it is not even formally written down.
You ask is it news?
In short, yes it is a story. Any time an agency seeks to delay or deny access to information to the public, who owns it and is legally entitled to it, then it is news.
pablo
10:25 am on Friday, March 18, 2011
Ms. Reese has a job to do and apparently does it well. Some of the media appears to be on a racist mission.
Bryan P. Sears
11:51 am on Friday, March 18, 2011
Pablo:
Again, thanks for your comment.
I'm not sure how asking for a salary indicates a "racist mission."
Any chance you would elaborate?
Ann
7:52 pm on Sunday, March 20, 2011
Pablo- What does race have to do with any of this? UGGG! It kills me that anytime we talk about failures of the Superintendent or his staff it becomes a race issue. We're in 2011 folks! Nobody cares about the race of any of these people. The fact is you can't hide the salaries of public employees. Does it help to make it not be a race issue if you know that Foose is white? Who cares what race these people are, what is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. Simple!
Buzz Beeler
1:09 pm on Friday, March 18, 2011
Pablo, I would suggest you look within. Making a baseless claim, without and substantiated facts or research, indicates to me that the first place you should look is in the mirror.
Read today's story on Mr. Hariston's new deputy superintendent who will make $214,000 a year. It must be nice!
"Pablo: Again, thanks for you comment," from the writer of the article hardly passes for for a racist press agenda.
Now if you have something of SUBSTANCE backed by research to say, then I'm all ears, otherwise I would suggest, stifle thyself.
Buzz Beeler
1:11 pm on Friday, March 18, 2011
Hey Bryan, I know I picked up some weight, but whats up with the big font? I don't think its because I'm special, even though I like to think so.
david b
4:17 pm on Friday, March 18, 2011
I personally do not know any of the commenters in this thread, but it is time that we start speaking up for truth in government. All forms of government from local to the feds are strife with fraud starting at the top. I am thankful we live in a country that embraces freedom of speech and now we just need people to open their eyes to these truths instead of watching tv. No wonder tea party'rs had so much say this time around. Look out for more next opportunity. I am proud to be an American living in America, I would also like to be able to set an example to the world of how an honest government should work, but unfortunately we cannot as of this time
Buzz Beeler
6:14 pm on Friday, March 18, 2011
David, ain't that the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!
John
8:18 pm on Friday, March 18, 2011
In light of the publication of the salary today...I am beginning to understand the reluctance of the administration to release the information. Ms. Reese should be giving back her salary. She has done very little to put out positive press about the system. Not that recent revelations could be spun any other way...there is something very wrong in Baltimore County.
ed
8:47 am on Saturday, March 19, 2011
John, you are correct. There is and has been something very wrong in BCPS for many years. When I tried to bring this stuff to light 10 years ago I was told by the administration that I was "just" a parent and I should shut up and go away. I have never met a more arrogant group of entitled government employees in my life. It is an insult to the rest of the County employees that actually work hard for their salary that Foose will make 214,000 when the rank & file is being ask to cut back and suffer wage cuts etc. I think it's time for Hairston to go. Sounds like we will have to run him out of town like we did Stuart Berger. And, where are our Councilmen? I understand the County Council doesn't have much control of the Kingdom of Greenwood but they still need to step up and put as much pressure on these thieves as possible.
Tony Solesky
12:33 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
I would love it if someone could explain to me how theses salaries are justified. What education and degrees do they hold ultimately that are rquired in the practrical function of their jobs. Do you really belive that the job in it's function requires more
then common sense? If you do you have none especially when we consider the return on our tax dollars and the state of our school system. Abolish the position.
Buzz Beeler
6:58 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Tony, the school bard is appointed and its autonomous agenda is established in law. I would surmise that is why their arrogance is so pervasive.
http://www.bcps.org/board/
It also doesn't help that, and I blame this in the voters, the senate just voted down the option for an elected school board. Not only are the voters ill-informed, but apathetic as well. In the last election cycle in the primary had one of the lowest turnouts on record and the same people in the asylum that are responsible for the mess we are in were re-elected.
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-02-24/news/bs-md-co-hybrid-board-vote-20110224_1_zirkin-bill-study-issue
K Blue
1:35 am on Sunday, March 20, 2011
Reese was quoted in a March 18th article as saying in reference to Del. Dan Morhaim's request for the same information:
"The Baltimore County public school system is extremely transparent — and if he would like that information, I would be more than happy to submit it to the delegate."
Does she expect Del. Morhaim to submit a written request as well? Or will a special exception to the "policy" or "procedure" be made by her? If she differentiates between requesters, then she is being discriminatory and that is not right.
Buzz Beeler
1:41 am on Sunday, March 20, 2011
K the only thing about the transparency of the school board and Dr. Hariston is the tape they use.
K Blue
1:48 am on Sunday, March 20, 2011
BB, for her to state (based upon what I have read over the past year alone) that the "Baltimore County public school system is extremely transparent" is a huge stretch. Most things that come to light only seem to come to light because people outside the system ask questions. Thats forced transparency, not genuine transparency.
Tony Solesky
6:34 am on Sunday, March 20, 2011
If our goal is to save taxpayer dollars and demand effiecency through transparency then the position should be abolished as a barrier in contradiction to it's own title . Nothing is more transparent then when is disappears
Ann
8:01 pm on Sunday, March 20, 2011
The sad part about all of this is that the reputation of BCPS is becoming so tarnished. We have strong schools, teachers, principals, support staff, students, parents, and our entire school community. I have lived in BCPS for over 20 years and I have great pride in our county and our schools. Dr. Hairston has become so corrupt and in it for himself. He has run out some really great people and his style of ruling with fear and intimidation has sadly become part of our school system. We need Dr. Grasmick and the Board to take him out before he ruins our great school system for future students.
John
7:36 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011
There are so many sad aspects to this continually unfolding drama in the Baltimore County School System. It is time for Mr. Hairston to move on and take those he has appointed to insure that Ms. Dezmon's agenda is carried out with him. Parents should be highly concerned that the basis for decision making in Baltimore County has become what is profitable for a few friends of the superintendent. This will affect achievement in Baltimore County. It is so depressing! It is classic..."The Emperor wears no clothes" No one will say "stop and let's do what is best for our children." The fear and distrust that permeates the system is disabling. I initially thought that Dr. Hairston would lead the county forward but he unfortunately began to listen to the wrong people and now his legacy in the county will be one of a period of missed opportunities and questionable ethics and behavior. How sad for this man. Sadder still that he chooses to misdirect his anger toward those who dare to say, "The emperor wears no clothes."
Tony Solesky
7:41 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011
John,
Get out of my head! Well said.
Baltimore1979
11:01 am on Saturday, April 2, 2011
If you're on Facebook, please join "Citizens for an Accountable Baltimore County School Board." It's a grassroots education advocacy effort and the hope is for it to grow into something larger.
Buzz Beeler
11:14 am on Saturday, April 2, 2011
Leslie, you might want to include the rest of the Kamenetz monarchy in your efforts to establish accountability in county government. It seems the good ole boys club now includes run-ins with the legal system to become a member.
Baltimore County is looking more like the city every day. Mr. Kamenetz even has an envoy to represent the influx of "new Americans" into the county.
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/local/politics/2011/04/balto_co_planning_appointee_ha.html
Tony Solesky
3:18 pm on Saturday, April 2, 2011
Buzz, Get out of my head. It is dangerous in here. Keep them thinking brother.
Buzz Beeler
8:20 pm on Saturday, April 2, 2011
Tony, the census figures were off by 10% in the influx of "new Americans."
I thought we lived in a Democracy where the rule of law meant something and the political process was for and by the people. I guess that's why over 62% in the latest polls show the voters think we are headed down the wrong path.
While Obama sends our troops into another war, we have one on the border that is ten times the security threat than the mess in Libya. Go figure!
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/01/exclusive-federal-agents-told-reduce-border-arrests-arizona-sheriff-says/
Robert Armstrong
1:08 pm on Sunday, April 3, 2011
LOL You have 'illegals" on the brain. What do "illegals" and the war in Libya have to do with the school system refusing a FOIA request?