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Voter Roll Irregularities Alleged in Baltimore County

Deceased voters, duplicate and invalid addresses found on Baltimore County voter rolls, according to Election Integrity Maryland.

 

The voter rolls of Baltimore County contain the registrations of deceased voters as well as voters registered to duplicate and invalid addresses, according to a Maryland voter fraud watchdog organization.

Election Integrity Maryland Friday submitted a challenge to 828 voter registrations because of alleged irregularities.

"We're bringing these to [the county Board of Elections] in the hopes it will make it easier for them to remove these registrations," said Cathy Kelleher, president of the non-profit, non-partisan organization.

"We're trying to help the system," she said.

Kelleher said that the irregularities, in some cases, could allow a voter to cast ballots in two different locations.

Election Integrity Maryland initially reviewed 1,700 voter registrations in the county. There are 492,288 registered voters in Baltimore County as of the last report issued in April by the State Board of Elections.

Kelleher said the irregularities could open the door to election fraud but said her group could not prove if such fraud had already occurred.

"We don't have access to the kind of records that could prove that happened," said Kelleher.

Katie Brown, director of elections in Baltimore County, said she the packet from Election Integrity Maryland was delivered Friday afternoon to her office but she had not had a chance to review it.

"We're going to verify everything they gave us," Brown said Friday night. "I'm not just going to put this away some where."

Brown said the watchdog group "uses information from sites were not legally allowed to use."

The elections director said confirmation cards will be sent to voters if there is a concern related to an irregularity. Voters who respond will have their information updated.

Voters who do not respond, however, will not be struck from the voter rolls.

"I wouldn't want to take away someone's right to vote if (the allegation) is not so," Brown said.

An audit of the 2008 election performed by the State Board of Elections discovered that as many as 200 people in Maryland intentionally voted twice—a more than 30 percent increase over the 2006 election.

More than a third of those came from Baltimore City and Baltimore County, according to the March 2009 report.

Elections officials pointed out at the time that the total number of duplicate voters represented just 1/100th of 1 percent of the 2.6 million votes cast in the 2008 presidential election.

All of the 2008 cases were referred to the Maryland State Prosecutor. None were prosecuted.

In February 2010, then-State Prosecutor Robert Rohrbaugh wrote in a letter to the Maryland State Senate that his office was unable to prosecute such cases because of budget and staff limitations.

Election Integrity Maryland has about 75 trained volunteers that use a computer program that identifies potentially problematic registrations. Typically, the program identifies addresses that have multiple registered voters that do not share last names and appear to have no relationship to one another.

Researchers for the group then review those individual registrations in an attempt to identify irregularities, according to Kelleher.

Earlier this year, Elections Integrity Maryland reviewed 7,000 voter registrations in Montgomery County and alleged that 5,400 of those contained irregularities similar to those found in Baltimore County.

"They haven't really given us a substantial response," Kelleher said of the Montgomery County Board of Elections.

There are 582,607 registered voters in Montgomery County and a total of more than 3.5 million in Maryland.

Kelleher said her group plans to review each registration.

"This is an ongoing process," Kelleher said. "We'll be doing this for years to come."

Related Topics: Baltimore County Board of Elections, Bryan Sears, Cathy Kelleher, Election Integrity Maryland, Maryland State Board Of Elections, Maryland State Prosecutor, Maryland State Senate, Robert Rohrbaugh, election fraud, and insider politics

Marty Warren

8:53 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012

In February 2010, then-State Prosecutor Robert Rohrbaugh wrote in a letter to the Maryland State Senate that his office was unable to prosecute such cases because of budget and staff limitations
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They know voter fraud is occurring but they say they can't prosecute???

All of the 2008 cases were referred to the Maryland State Prosecutor. None were prosecuted
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willfully ignoring the law

Kinda makes the "Poll Tax" excuse for no Photo I D seem shallow and untrue.

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Bill Howard

11:48 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012

@Marty They cannot prosecute because most voter fraud in most states comes from Democratic machinery. However, if a single Republican is found, then they will prosecute.

BOB LONG

9:10 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012

This is totally unacceptable with today's technology .

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Buzz Beeler

9:15 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012

Bob, so what you are saying is that its business as usual. When is the last time the county, or state prosecuted one of their own. They are trying the same thing is Florida. Holder is afraid they'll lose Florida and want the polls stacked with the dead, lame, lazy and fraudulent.

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BOB LONG

9:32 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012

This is why photo ID should be required to vote. With today's technology there should be no irregularities or duplications.

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Paul Amirault

7:11 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012

Buzz, I have to disagree with you on this one. "Holder .... want[s] the polls stacked with the dead, lame, lazy and fraudulent.", that is an opinion not based on any verified fact, unlike you to do so.

It would be the same as saying that Democrats think Republicans want the polls stacked with as many ignorant voters as possible, an opinion, not a verified fact.

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Josephine Hlatki

4:31 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

Bill Howard and Bob Long, I'm in total agreement with both of you. During the 2010 General elections I was in charge of many precincts for a candidate. The day of the elections my cell phone was ringing off the hook from my poll watchers, telling me voters were coming outside the polls after voting and complaining that after they cast their ballots, the summary came up different....meaning the Republican votes were coming up for the Democrat candidate. I can't help but wonder how many people didn't bother to read the summary before casting their ballots and having their votes go to the Dem and not the R. I did not get one call saying the opposite was happening to the Dems. I placed so many calls to the attorneys, it was ridiculous. I hope they get to the bottom of this.

amdactivist

9:19 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012

I researched more then 2000 names in the BOE rolls in montgomery County.. Unbelievable what you find.. Doug Gansler our attorney general won't do anything especially if New Americans involved. And they are!

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Scott Sewell

9:34 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012

Why am I not surprised? Outraged, but not surprised!

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Mark Patro

4:18 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012

Show me how someone actually votes twice. When we know how this is done then we can fix the problem. "Fixing" the potential to vote twice SEEMS like a good idea but if it interfears with the legitimate ability to vote of more than we have a problem with now I would rather see a fraud rate of 1/1ooth of 1% over the disenfranchisement of a larger number of people. This is America and our right to vote is precious. We much fight fraud, but we must not make it more difficult for valid voters to vote.

What Election Integrity Maryland is doing is well intentioned, but I'm not convinced they are none partisan. The Election board should be using up to date technology to know every voter is properly identified. We can do this without photo ID. As I have stated here before photo IDs can be forged and when we become dependent on them the means we now use to check identification will become even more lax.

New technology will cost money and most of us did not want to pay the government any more money. So where does it end? If we want a well oiled machine we have to pay for it not trade one inadequate system for another.

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Bryan P. Sears

6:11 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012

Mark: Two years ago I did a story about how the state board found examples including 200 in Baltimore County and City that the board itself believed intentionally voted twice.

The board forwarded those names to the state prosecutor who said his $1.3 m budget and 12 employees couldn't investigate and prosecute the cases. He added later that given those constraints, he would never be able to investigate or prosecute.

Those cases were equal to about 1/100th of 1 percent of the total number of people who voted in the 2008 election.

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Buck Harmon

7:15 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012

That's total BS Mark, Requiring a photo ID to vote would be the most cost effective way to put a huge dent in the current fraud arena. And it would only be the starting point.
The current system is obviously corrupt and relying on the fox to guard the hen house only breeds this kind of nationwide tragedy. There is a cost to have fake ID made as well, who would be paying that?

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Bill Howard

11:55 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012

Mark, if you want to know how to vote twice, just ask some old ACCORN workers. They will let you know. In fact, bring a copy of the obituaries and you can vote several times. The last three times I voted (only as myself) I only gave a name and address. What if someone had voted in my name earlier in the day? Motor voter, NO ID, refuse to purge etc. these are all designed by Democrats to steal elections because fewer people believe in their agenda and they need fake votes to maintain.

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Tuley Wright

12:13 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012

Agreed, I want to see evidence of even ONE individual who has voted twice, not just evidence that 200 voters have dual registrations. In every case I have seen so far, these dual registrations appear to be accidental.

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Mark Patro

4:33 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012

Again, I work as an Election Judge. And I follow the line up of questions that we are supposed to ask as a judge. There are ways to leads the voters and there are ways to ask so that the voters must give the correct answer. If he/she give the wrong answer they can only vote by provisional ballot. There is a list of questions that we must ask. If the voter hesitates of gives a wrong answer we have the right to ask for ID. this is not a totally ID-less system. As I have stated at least three times now it is possible to create a fake ID with the cheater's picture and all the other information. It would be less likely to challenge that id if it bore the cheater's picture. I am afraid election judges would be less likely to challenge someone who presented a forged photo ID in place of the battery of question we must now ask.

Its easy to say "go ask an ex-Acorn employee." Would a judge in a courtroom take that as an answer to "show me how a person votes twice?" I don't think so.

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Mark Patro

4:33 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012

And to Bryan. I am not aware of the two year old article. Would you please provide a link?

And lastly I am not saying I do not believe people try to vote multiple times or actually get away with it. There is something wrong when there is evidence and the judicial system fails to act. But I am also saying, and this is also for the third time that no system is perfect. Should we live with 200 wrongful duplicate votes or should we disenfranchise more than 200 voters? It the disenfranchised winds up being more than the original 200 who are we benefiting? Erring on the side of the voter would be fairer than once again hurting a greater number of innocent people because of a few bad apples. The modern attitude seems to work for punishing the innocent instead of correcting the problem.

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mwdubs

1:13 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012

Mark you say it is acceptable to allow 200 cases of voter fraud in Maryland in order to keep from disenfranchising many others. Is that acceptable if it happens nationwide? 50 states with 200 cases is 10,000 potential acts of voter fraud. Then there are the island territories that could be added into the figures. I’ll bet the number of unknown fraudulent acts is much greater than 200. I know a few registered voters that never vote. It is possible for me to assume their identities at the polls and vote for them because I.D. is not required. I too have worked as an election judge and (not to burst your bubble) your 2 hours of training does not give you the ability to spot a fake. Not having a valid I.D. because of economic hardship is just an excuse the dem’s use to allow the potential for fraudulent votes. You need an I.D. to cash a check, drive a car, and get a job so why is it unreasonable to ask the same for voting.

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Mark Patro

7:17 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012

I'm not saying it is out right acceptable. What I am saying is that we cannot attain perfection. There will never be absolute zero fraud in elections although we can work toward that goal. What I am saying is we should accept that humans beings are not perfect and that we cannot build perfect systems. I am also saying, and I thought I was clear that what is unacceptable is to increase the number of errors to say we fixed the problem.

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Buck Harmon

7:36 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012

Mark Patro, I am completely convinced that you are full of baloney, and will blurb just about anything in an attempt to justify odd behavior. Requiring a photo ID to vote makes sense, It will be cost effective and will weed out some of the opportunity for fraud. I have not read one sound reason not to require photo ID. The numbers used in this blog are but a small reflection or sample of what is really taking place....please provide your reason for not wanting photo ID requirement to cast your vote...the real reason.... come out of the closet with it..

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Tuley Wright

12:53 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012

Curious as to how many of the 'double registrations' in Maryland actually represent double voting. Does anyone know any stats? I know that when it was investigated in New York State the percentage of double registrations that became actual double votes between 2000 and 2004 was 0.000009 percent. And what this all really leads to is revisiting of the idea of the issuance of National Identity Cards for all citizens, issued the way SS cards are now issued to everyone. This idea, if I recall correctly, was objected to by as many conservatives as liberals, but this seems to be the way we are heading now. Curious, is this what the advocates of voter ID are getting at? It can't be that all voters must have driver's licenses, of course, which sort of serve as national ID cards now, but would have to a picture ID issued to all citizens. I thought there were bipartisan reservations about this idea.

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Josephine Hlatki

4:33 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

Mark, you are one of the biggest liberals to ever comment on the Patch. I've run into you many times....same old garbage. We have you pegged.

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FIFA_archived

4:51 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

Josey, liberals are not a disease. It is a very valid point of view. Your "garbage" is cleaner, doesn't stink? You carry a bagful of it and I think it smells.

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Mark Patro

5:43 am on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

Josephine, I am not embarrassed to be a Liberal. If I were to create a stereotype about myself I'd probably use that label myself. I do not find it to be negative. That is other people's baggage. I am, however, centrist on many positions, just not on civil rights or other social justice issues.

Pat Foster

6:08 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012

The process for verification is ridicules! If someone has moved or died how can they respond if they no longer live at the address on the rolls or they are dead!

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Bill Howard

11:59 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012

If they move they should serve notice, just like when you tell the bank where to send the bills. If they are dead, a certificate is issued. This list should be given to the board of elections to look into. They have a lower caseload in non-elections years and could do the work.

Eastsider

6:42 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012

The state has failed the legal voter and its citizens. There are so many checks and balances that could be set in place but isn’t. The state is in charge of birth documents, voter registration, driver licenses and ID’s and death certificates as well as many other agencies. To me if these agencies would create a data base it could be crossed referenced by the election board to determine who is a legal state voter and who is not, then voter ID may not be needed.

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Computer Techy

6:45 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012

I would love to know how those fraudulent cases voted. I am sure we already know. Let me guess Mark, you are a liberal? We need ID's to buy alcohol, tobacco, to drive, to see an R rated movie, but not to vote, ridiculous! Only legal citizens should be allowed to vote, and only once. Baltimore City, Montgomery, and PG counties especially, are riddled with fraud and corruption.

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Eastsider

7:32 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012

FIFA,

I’m a registered Democrat and feel that new laws need to put in place to stop voter fraud. It’s just not a right wing Republican talking point this Democrat is talking about it.

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Bill Howard

12:05 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012

@ FIFA Voter fraud is an issue. In 1994 Ellen Saurbrey was cheated out of the governorship by Paris Glendenning. There were all the "irregularities' that DEMs claimed in the 2000 Florida race (lees the hanging chads) but she was still belittled for trying to get at the truth. Governor Glendennings wife happened to be a high official at the State Board of Elections at the time too. The judges were all appointed by Democrats so Saurebrey could not get an impatial hearing. The people lost because we got 8 years of the spending that is making this state a tax mess now. Ellen Saurbey would have been a good governor but that was stolen in the 1994 elections.

Kenneth G. Hadfield Jr.

8:39 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012

First off there is no voter fraud in Baltimore County. We can't get legal long term or short term voters to the polls much less people who are dead. Many people in our county are just too lazy or don't want to be bothered about today's very partisan political scene and would never go through the trouble to vote twice. I agree with requiring photo ID and I agree the polls should be kept up to date. But never purge the voter polls in an election year. Those that do that or try to pass restrictive voter laws are just trying to stunt the vote and should be called out. Any elective official who doesn't believe in the word compromise should be recalled. We can stop that voter myth by having same day voter registration in Maryland. We have the poll judges sitting, waiting for something to do. Solve the problem instead of creating one.

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Joan Wood

9:50 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012

Let me say this: it would be easy to commit voter fraud in Baltimore County. How can I say that? Because I could have done it during early voting, in the primary. My sister does not vote in the primary, I know this to be a fact. I know her name (and how to spell it) her address and her date of birth.We are only a few years apart in age, so I doubt I would have been challanged. I have to admit I was very tempted. And my daughter passed away last year and is still on the rolls. I could easily have had someone vote for her. So don't say voter fraud doesn't exist in Maryland and Baltimore County, just go back and research the election involving Ellen Sauerbrey! And sorry most of the poll judges are not informed or well trained. So Ken......your points do not hold water! When money is involved people will do lots of things they would not normally do, we both know that. I have been present when there were problems and had to call the BOE or an attorney on call to remedy the problem because the judges were ill trained in the law. And requiring photo ID is not a Democrat issue, nor is it a Republican issue........it is an AMERICAN issue. We are all aware of "motor voter" and what that got us! IMHO

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Josephine Hlatki

4:42 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

Joan, you sure can tell who leans to the left in these conversations, can't you? When my folks die, I make sure they're off the rolls so some lib in the family doesn't vote as them. It's easy to do, we just need to do it.

I also remember in 2010 hearing about the mailboxes at vacant houses where gobs of absentee ballots were mailed.......voter fraud.......you betcha.

Greg

9:52 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012

Election Integrity Maryland is not a non-partisan organization. It's an organization inspired by the Houston, Texas based True the Vote group. True the Vote is an offshoot of a local tea party group. No one, Democrat or Republican wants to see voter fraud, but I think Election Integrity is more interested in voter suppression than in preventing voter fraud. The media need to do a better job when it comes to identifying organizations that are truly non-partisan.

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Tuley Wright

12:01 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012

Agreed, we are all against voter fraud, but to refer to Election Integrity Maryland as a non-partisan organization is beyond disingenuous, these are actually some of the most highly partisan people involved in politics here.

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David Taylor

11:51 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012

FALSE: It's a Tea Party backed (partisan) group, run by Tea Party members, who use whatever criteria they deem to target individuals in order to take away the Right to vote from them... who knows what databases they are accessing to identify people to challenge, and I don't recall where they shared their methodology... one can only imagine who's being targeted.

It's nonsense to suggest that Scott Walker fans like Cathy Kelleher are operating without an agenda here.

Kenneth G. Hadfield Jr.

10:31 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012

I didn't say voter fraud was not possible I said it just is not happening. They did find one vote out of millions who voted in Florida that was real voter fraud. So let's solve the problem encourage your legislator to put forth a bill for election day voter registration (same day voter registration) in Maryland for the next election. By the way for same day voter registration you have to show ID. Let's all work to get everyone to vote instead of creating myths to restrict the voting rights of others. Another myth is you have to be a lawyer or well trained election judge official to register a new voter. Whatever your issue is voting restrictions, purging and new voting laws should never be changed during an election year. That is seen as stunting the vote in order to steal an election.

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Bill Howard

12:11 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012

You have proof it is NOT happening?
Actually, if it is so easy to do, mathematically it probably IS happening.

For example, leave a $20 bill on your mailbox with a note that says "I will be back for this money at 5 PM. Then tell me if it is still there at 4 PM.

Spring Heeled Jack

11:10 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012

I had a dual voting ability in 2000 and 2002 because of a mistake by the state not updating their system. (And NO I did not vote twice!).
I lived in one location from 1990-1999 and was registered to vote at Joppa View Elementary. I moved in 1999 about a 1/2 mile away and was registered to vote at Perry Hall High. In 2000, I received (my) voter card forwarded from my old address to vote at Joppa View.
During the 2000 election, I went to Perry Hall High and legally voted. I drove over to Joppa View after that and walked up to check if I was on the list and I was. I told the election judge about the error. They said they would note it.
In 2002, I voted again at Perry Hall High legally. I drove over to Joppa View to check if I was on their list to. To my surprise I was still on that list to legally vote again. I told the judge and she said she would note the error.
Finally in 2004 the correction was made.

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Tuley Wright

12:06 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012

I think Ronn is likely to be a case in point, most of these duplicate registration turn out to be simple bureaucratic snafus, not the result of some organized nefarious conspiracy. And like Ronn, it remains to be seen how many of these double enrolled voters actually were dishonest enough to vote twice. I suspect that most of them, like Ronn, simply did their civic duty, voted once, and may or may not have even REALIZED that a snafu had them as dual enrolees.

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amark

12:18 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012

I love the left when they claim that it is the republicans who want an uneducated electorate. The left's base is made up of the youth (naïve for the most part) minorities (who have less education as a whole) and unions who take their marching orders from labor bosses. Plus the left's arguments like free healthcare, tax the rich, etc are much easier to sell to an ignorant population. You need to actually be informed to understand the constitution, economics and capitalism. No, it is the left that in fact depends on an uninformed electorate to win. If people like Paul A don't understand that I don't know what to say.

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Escariot

1:58 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012

He is an ideologue amark, and ideologues do not base their opinions on facts. For example amark, someone like Paul would tell you that the democratic party "cares" for the impoverished, the minorities of this country while Republicans do not. Yet when Charlie Rangel was interviewed he actually admitted that inner city citizens in his district of Harlem have not improved their quality of life after voting democrat for over 40 years. The union reference you made is proved by the fact that in Wisconsin the driving force for recalling gov Walker is not performance, but ideology. Wisconsin has an unemployment rate lower than the national average, and a balanced budget now because of Walker, but the unions have spent millions to recall him. The left and their elitist attitude does rely on uninformed electorate. Proof of this is when African Americans are confronted with the fact that their unemployment and wealth destruction is the greatest amongst all citizens yet reply that Obama is doing a great job. That would be funny if it were not a tragic event with non-humorous consequences. Paul would also argue with you that Obama's regulations have not negatively affected job growth, yet the facts show that corporations now have trillions of cash stockpiled and will not hire until regulations stop causing market uncertainty.

Paul Amirault

12:50 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012

I don't mind responding to folks with false names, so I will.

1. I didn't claim what you state. Read my post again.
2. The left's base is not made up of naive youth (most in college) and uneducated minorities.
3. Have you noticed the Republican base (red states) exist in the most uneducated states of all?
4. The Republican party has successfully waged a propaganda campaign that has convinced their base that the country's problems are due to unions, immigrants, welfare, abortions, LGBT community, ACLU, a black non-citizen President, liberals, etc., this has been an effective policy of distraction for Republicans.

Uninformed, hardly. Your talking points are not based in fact.

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Josephine Hlatki

4:43 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

Thanks, Paul....got your number now.

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Paul Amirault

6:51 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

So what Josey? I have your number too? Is that what you want?

amark

1:38 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012

First I am not using a false name. My first initial is A (for Andy if you must know) and my middle name is Mark. Second a large portion of the democrat base is made up of the groups I cite plus large numbers of rich elites like our president who think they are therefore smarter than everyone else. Third drawing the conclusion that the states that are red are less educated is faulty because you have to look within the population to see who is voting for whom. For example in a state like West Virginia, many of those you may consider dumb are coal workers whose livelihood depends on the coal industry which Obama is destroying. Other states in the south are more culturally conservative and will naturally support candidates who reflect their views on those issues. Finally on your last point, the those issues you mention, they are hardly the issues most conservatives are talking about. I for one care about the economy, the debt and individual freedom and constitutional govt, as do most conservatives.

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Paul Amirault

2:04 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012

I stand corrected Andy Mark. Let's say in instead, anonymity is more accurate of your desires. Your choice, I prefer to use my real name.

The issues I mention are the red meat issues most uneducated members of the Republican base focus on. I believe you are incorrect in that assertion. The intellectual conservatives who wish to talk about economic matters in an intelligent matter are always welcome. The problem for them is the base doesn't understand nor care. The base wants their red meat which could be said for both sides. If the President is a "rich elite" as you describe, what is Romney, Trump, Gingrich, Koch Brothers and many more than on the democratic side?

Below are the stats of high school diplomas by state. It speaks factually to my earlier comment.

I believe you do watch politics as I do, I just say follow the money.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0233.pdf

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JD1

7:45 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012

Careful drawing any conclusions regarding graduation rates. Maryland has a high graduation rate, however over 25% would not graduate without the bridge project program because they can't pass the HSA tests. Factor in the massive grade inflation that takes place along with pressure to pass on minority students and Maryland's grad rate would be pathetic.

amark

3:12 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012

Rich elites are people on the left who try to tell others how to live. It's an attitude of "I am smarter than those common masses, therefore I need to pass govt rules regulating their healthcare, the cars they drive, the schools their kids attend, what they can do with their private property and so on. If someone is rich but believes in free market capitalism they are not elite at least with regard to government, IMO.

Also people can be highly educated in math, science, literature, etc but be clueless about politics. Just look at the polls that show large numbers of Americans who can't name the vice president or the speaker of the house to name two examples.

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Escariot

2:03 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012

The irony involving rich elites amark is that they espouse that they do more for the impoverished on an educational basis, yet destroyed a voucher program for dc kids that was a proven success. Reason? They do not care that voucher programs and charter schools like those in Louisiana after Katrina provide better results. Instead, it is a matter of preserving the special interests of the teacher's unions. Bloomberg and his 16 oz soda rule is a great example of your above posting. In another ironic example amark, Michelle Obama wants to change the nutritional criteria of school kids yet her husband does nothing about the lobbying of the food industry that promotes high fructose corn syrup above edible crops.

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Brandon

7:49 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012

Rich elites are people on the right that say things like "corporations are people too."
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one...

Paul Amirault

3:56 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012

Wow! You believe rich elites can only be liberals. Have a nice day Andy Mark ???.

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Escariot

1:46 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012

Well, well, well, if it isn't Paul "limousine liberal" Amirault and his propaganda, spin, and democratic talking points. The facts involving this topic are quite simple. The democrats do not want voter id laws so they can use groups like acorn to bus people to swing states with homeless citizens. Yes, it was caught on film Paul where acorn members picked up homeless and told them to vote for Obama. The moter voter law which was enacted to not only register voters, but to also help purge voter rules is actively being ignored by the Holder justice department. Is this not the same Holder justice department that failed to prosecute the new black panthers? Is this not the same Eric Holder whose justice department received 17 million dollars in fines for bringing frivoulous lawsuits? Is this not the same democratic party that "magically" pulled out the number of winning senatorial votes in Minnesota from the trunk of a car? By the way, those votes would have been the first time in united states history that a senatorial candidate got more votes than the president. How about those democrats in new york that were indicted for voter fraud for the same exact reasons as this story Paul? How about the state of Ohio Paul where there were more registered democratic voters in counties than actual population?

Mike Pierce

12:18 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012

We have someone registered to vote in Kingsville at his business address although he lives in Harford County. He even ran for Republican Central Committee in Baltimore County. I've contacted the election board. but they won't do anything about it.

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Escariot

6:30 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012

As far as there not being voter fraud FIFA, how do you explain how members of the Obama campaign were caught registering in multiple states in 2008, especially all of the swing states?

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Tuley Wright

5:15 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012

Curious as to how many of the 'double registrations' in Maryland actually represent double voting. Does anyone know any stats? I know that when it was investigated in New York State the percentage of double registrations that became actual double votes between 2000 and 2004 was 0.000009 percent. And what this all really leads to is revisiting of the idea of the issuance of National Identity Cards for all citizens, issued the way SS cards are now issued to everyone. This idea, if I recall correctly, was objected to by as many conservatives as liberals, but this seems to be the way we are heading now. Curious, is this what the advocates of voter ID are getting at? It can't be that all voters must have driver's licenses, of course, which sort of serve as national ID cards now, but would have to a picture ID issued to all citizens. I thought there were bipartisan reservations about this idea.

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Brandon

6:03 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012

There would be loud objections from all side if they could understand that this was one of the first steps Hitler took in Nazi Germany. Do we really want to go there?

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Buck Harmon

6:11 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012

If you don't have a drivers license in MD you should have a MD photo ID which is issued thru DMV as well.

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Buck Harmon

6:12 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012

Great observation Brandon...

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Brandon

6:31 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012

I'm wondering why conservatives are pushing the photo ID thing. Just because there is a picture of someone's face on an ID card, what guarantees that all the other information is truthful an is actually legitimate? College kids seem to forge IDs all the time and get away with it. And weren't illegals allowed to get drivers licenses in Maryland a few years ago? I know they can't know, but what if some of those older license holders registered to vote using their M drivers licenses? Is the election judge expected to ask each individual voter if he or she is legal or not?

David Taylor

12:14 am on Monday, June 4, 2012

"A Maryland voter fraud watchdog organization" - Non-partisan?

Perhaps not... it looks to me to be more of a highly partisan externally funded (national campaign) of a similar sort they had issues with in Florida. One has to wonder which people they are specifically targeting in their challenge/identification process. This is America, and the right to vote is sacred - if you have any love of your country, and even if you are a Tea Party supporter, you have to respect people's right to take part in Democracy and oppose these sorts of efforts.

"Earlier this year, Elections Integrity Maryland reviewed 7,000 voter registrations in Montgomery County and alleged that 5,400 of those contained irregularities similar to those found in Baltimore County." - They really think that 5400 out of 7000 voters there should be struck/challenged?

This is nonsense, and the Elections board is right in not striking the roles based on this lobby group's efforts to "help us" - they are gaming the system to their own advantage.

As for who they are... I'll let you read for yourself what NPR says and
http://www.npr.org/2012/03/13/148518795/tea-party-spawns-new-effort-against-voter-fraud

Note the last signatory in this list of Tea Party leaders
http://www.scribd.com/doc/49384289/Tea-Party-Leader-Letter-to-Gov-Scott-Walker

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Brandon

8:05 am on Monday, June 4, 2012

The motivation of conservatives in this effort is to diminish the vote for Democrats. Its blatantly obvious. They are out right lying when there is a comment that stipulates that Liberals want all the dead voters to remain on the ballot so they can commit purposeful voter fraud. And their insinuation appears to be that conservative do not commit voter fraud. There should be no voter fraud on either side. I am not seeing solutions to this question. All I am seeing is the typical daily attacks on the opposing political party.

Bryan started this discussion asking why there have not been prosecutions. The office responsible said there is not enough money. Lets look at how we can fix this problem. Requiring photo IDs alone is not a solution. It just shifts the set of problems. It might actually be PART of the solution, but not the entire solution.

Escariot

7:54 am on Monday, June 4, 2012

I provided facts about how members of the obama campaign were warned not to vote in swing states that they registered in because they were also registered to vote in their home states. It is also fact that people of the democratic party were prosecuted in Mississippi, New York for voter fraud. Right now as we all post Wisconsin is investigating voter fraud of the dems stemming back to the 2008 elections. Where is FIFA and facts? He has none. All he does is levy insults with no stats to back up his postings. As far as birthers go FIFA, explain why Obama's bio that he provided to the original publisher of his first book states that he was born in Kenya? Reminder for those that place emphasis on facts, not opinions, this was the original publisher that payed an advance of 150,000 dollars and not the final publisher that payed 40,000 after that orignal contract had expired after 3 years and no manuscript.

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Larry Wilt

8:03 am on Monday, June 4, 2012

It is amazing how a check of the voter rolls stirs people up. I scanned the article and and comments for data on actual voter fraud in Maryland and could not find any. There seems to be a lot of "speculative anger" going on here.

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Escariot

9:07 am on Monday, June 4, 2012

What programs do you watch on msnbc Brandon? The Holder justice department is suing every single state that utilizes the motor voter law to purge the dead and those felons that no longer have the right to vote. As far as suppressing votes, does that mean that universites are suppressing enrollment for asking for id? Are the airlines suppressing flyers for asking for id? Are libraries around the country suppressing book lendings because they ask for ids? In Florida alone they found 182,00 registered voters that cannot prove us citizenship. In new york and mississipi dems were indicted and plead guilty to voter fraud. By asking for a valid id it allows election commisions to check databases with the government concerning social security numbers, citizenship, and whether the person is a felon or deceases. How does that suppress voter turnout? Wait, it does suppress voter fraud because it prevents those people from fraudulently sending out absentee ballots and intercepting them and using them to commit voter fraud. I never said that repubs did not commit voter fraud. However, right now it is wisconsin, new york, mississippi and other states where acorn sprouted that voter fraud is apparent.

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Brandon

9:21 am on Monday, June 4, 2012

Escariot, Nothing in this country is more precious than our right to vote other than life itself.

What universities do to allow people to become a student is far less important that suppressing anyone's right to vote. This is a diversionary conversation.

Library cards or getting on an airplane or even driving a car are in no way as important as having a say in your government. Voting is a Constitutional right last time i checked getting a book at the library wasn't.

Requiring a photo ID is suppressing voter turn out because the government would be placing a barrier before some people to get that ID. And it it poor people and old people, who in many instances live on a reduced income who would likely be most effected by this requirement. It also costs money to get to the DMV. Not everyone drives, nor does everyone have a driver's licenses. And then when you get there it costs money to pay for the ID process. This equates to a poll tax when you have to pay money to vote. This is wrong even if it only suppresses one vote.

Buck Harmon

10:08 am on Monday, June 4, 2012

Human Beings are responsible for themselves first...
If they are unable to tend to their self for whatever reason, the system seems to get heavily involved in their lives...by design I believe.
Politics rely heavily on human beings that are stuck within the limitations of the system that controls their life.
The photo ID would catch on really quick, would be easy to understand, and would meet with little resistance...getting people into the system has never been a problem, even in the far reaches most are already in...
The system will never be without fail, efforts to maintain balance are the best that I believe we are capable of.
If you truely live free than non of these numbers or photo's mean anything to the quality of your life anyway...

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Dundalk Lee

11:08 am on Monday, June 4, 2012

What we really need is a follow up system to ensure that the person the rolls say voted, actually voted. With turn out so low, it is easy for corrupt folks to add votes by voting for folks who don't show up. Maybe if we start with a follow up system we could weed out the corrupt election officials. And do not forget that the electronic voting machines cannot be verified as they do not record which person the voter selected (in order to ensure voter privacy). So if the machines are fixed (and there have been many allegations of that) what could is any voter ID system (although personally I would like to see one).

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David Taylor

12:54 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

Here's another take on the National efforts by "True the Vote" to influence elections in their favor - let's not beat around the bush. this is a radical Tea Party group that targets who they want to target, and then expects Maryland to simply roll-over and acccept their "help" as a "non-partisan watchdog" - yeah, right...

They should be ashamed of themselves, waving our Flag while they attack their fellow American's right to vote...

http://www.thenation.com/blog/167648/true-vote-still-out-screw-vote

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kevin

1:01 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

They would call up people and find out if they were going to vote or sit this one out or my favorite was were you working shift work down the point and not going to make it ? Bang two vans 15 people each with a name for every polling place .Bingo the shop stewards delivered 150 votes at least in Dundalk. Lunch and a $20.00 bill. Now I KNOW that was done and so do many Steelworkers .Listen after the DOJ came in an overturned the points election ,Do you know how hard it is to fet them to have a reelection? It is almost impossible and wouldn't have happened if the mill was profitable and union was happy with dues they made an EXAMPLE out of business they were losing .

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kevin

1:10 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

Funniest day in my life was Venitoulis election for govenor saw him in a Dunkin Donuts Wise ave. 6:00am in the morning ,told him he was losing the Dundalk vote and the people around him said this guy is so young don't worry, we have then they named off three names and told him that those guys would deliver the vote .I kind of felt Venetoulis cared about Dundalk but he was told that he shouldn't waste his time there .I still have the extra large coffee mug I bought that morning with the saying don't worry about the donut worry about the hole. Dundalk was the hole in his bid for the govenors mansion.
The only way to stop corruption or even put a dent in it is a picture ID.

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Mark Patro

2:00 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

Photo IDs work for the Police department because they have a computer system that works with that ID card. They can go to their car, log on to their computer and pull up a picture taken at the DMV when the license was made. When the voting system has a computer system with that ability it will likely reduce voting fraud.

Using a photo that is simply on a card and is not verifiable is no more proof of who you are than a fake ID that an under-aged college student uses to get beer. I have mentioned this here at least three times and no is disputing this. All I keep hearing is "a photo ID is the solution."

Anyone with the ability to produce an authentic looking driver's license could then get more erroneous votes though the system because we all assume any photo ID is authentic. This will increase the fraud not decrease it.

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Arbutus Town Crier

3:29 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

The vote is a private right, But a card like a credit card, your private creative pin number to vote, and secondary code when you sign in e.g..mothers maiden name and add coded finger print on the card making 100% better then the current process. Banks do it and even notify you when their is an irregularity and a way you could check if your card has been abused. ,Its better than what we currently have. Then Illegal use of the card or counterfeit card punishable by Federal law.For those absentee ballot a booth could be at the local police station, Local court house where someone would feel uncomfortable breaking the law.

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Buck Harmon

4:59 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

I dispute it Mark..people have to pay dearly for the fake ID, not many would do that to cast fraudulent votes at their own expense...the percentages would be lower than numbers that you have used on this blog. Who will be paying for fake ID ?

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Buck Harmon

5:01 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

What are you afraid of Mark...do you not have a photo ID?

Escariot

1:52 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

Dear Brandon, your post could not have been more wrong if you tried. The supereme court has in fact ruled that all states that are not required to request voting changes because of gross civil rights violations in the past have a right to pass laws requiring photo id to vote. That is a plain and simple fact. Every time the Holder justice system has tried to fight that law it has lost in the courts. The supreme court has ruled sir that photo ids do not violate voter suppression. Also sir, you are ignorant of southern states that send people to the residencies of those poor and get them a photo id with no cost. Almost every state proposing voter photo id laws have programs to accomodate those that do not drive and are poor. Nice try though. Go back to msnbc.

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Brandon

2:33 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

Escariot, why don't you have a civil conversation and back of the MSNBC crap. In every post you have written on this topic is a dig at the person writing. I suppose you are unable to have a conversation without belittling you you are talking to. You're behaving like a bully.

Escariot

1:58 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

FIFA obviously deserves an award for most incredulous poster of the year. Keep denying the facts FIFA, oh wait that is what all liberals do when they cannot bring their own facts to the table. Go crawl back under your msnbc rock, and when you wake up we will have a new president.

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Escariot

2:41 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

There is a biography of Barack Obama that was given to the first book publisher that paid him 150,00 dollars for an advance. That biography that was provided lists him as being born in Kenya. That is a fact. Maybe FIFA or brandon will post something intelligent, or factual. Brandon keeps touting photo id laws as suppressing votes, yet the scotus ruled otherwise. Also FIFA, it is a fact that obama had sealed his college records including his financial aid forms and his written works. What is he trying to hide? Did he apply for financial aid as a foreign student?

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Buck Harmon

5:55 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

Paul, Your man lies about and hides the truth...If you think that this kind of behavior is acceptable then you are obviously a man with lower standards I am.
I actually had hope for change with Obama when he was first elected, now I hope for change in this election.
Problem is...I'm Independent and detest the way that our Country was Bush whacked, the Repubs have done a terrible job by providing Romney as the other choice so I'm torn between a coward that hides the truth and a corporate greed driven bastard that seems to have the same ruler pulling his strings...
You lost my respect when I learned of the way that you really made your living Paul, so get over it like your mother in law has tried to teach you..

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Paul Amirault

6:29 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

Buck - he is not "my man", just the choice I had. You call Obama a "coward", on what basis? Ask Bin Laden.

I lost your respect because of the way I "really made my living". I really don't give a hoot about your respect. I am a land developer, former home builder, and a 30+ year volunteer in this community and have never hidden those facts. Grow-up, Buck. I earned every nickel I have the hard way, by working for it. Son of an Army sergeant, paid my own way through college, invested all of my money and took many risks that I could end up being bankrupt? Turns out I was lucky, it worked out.

You make me ill sometimes with your holier than thou attitude and your plastic shack comments.

Enough said about this.

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Buck Harmon

7:53 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

Obama is afraid to release his history in full or he would have. Spending millions to keep it neatly tucked away from the public is a cowardice approach that speaks volumes to the guys true character.
Paul, You should feel ill because of the way that homebuyers were taken full advantage of with the very real plastic shack development processes that you participated in. Greed driven at every level... shameful..

Buzz Beeler

4:48 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

Paul, right again on the issue. You are - dead rights - on those who have passed away but still vote from beyond the yellow brick road.

Mark, when Bryan tells about an article he did you can take it to the bank. Just because you can't remember or have knowledge of it doesn't mean it ain't there.

As to the link, they were taken down over business transactions. Bryan I would scan and upload it to prove your point.

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Paul Amirault

5:22 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

Buzz, I have heard the "dead" voting stuff all the time. I would like you to focus on the elephant in the room, the possibility of altering electronic vote totals without detection. People easily understand the dead person voting, that's one vote. But changing totals surreptiously, the perpetrator decides who wins the election. Involve fewer people, don't leave a trail.

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Paul Amirault

5:23 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

Buzz, you were a cop. Involve too many people and you get caught easily, which is exactly what an organized campaign of dead or duplicate voters would take.

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FIFA_archived

5:57 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

@Tim, the problem I have with all three of the 24/7 talking head networks is the volume and the repetition of non-news. The car chases, the death of actresses, actors, singers, etc. The Prince gets married, whoopee!

Those networks will talk incessantly about anything but important stuff. Some more than others. Young Americans die every day for this country in Afghanistan and it simply makes me ill that it is not important to us. "They volunteered" for that job speech makes me sick to my stomach.

Probably speaks to the attention span of Americans.

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Escariot

7:06 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

In regards to Paul, and his defense of Obama's shady past. Here are classic examples of his shady past, in no particular order:
1) Obama lectures acorn staffers on how to protest banks and intimidate lenders-now it is simply referred to as the "muscle for money" modus operandi
2) As a state legislator in Illinois, Obama wrote federal recommendations for block grants for federal housing for Tony Rezko. Rezko then took the money but allowed the properties to be condemned. Thousands of poor african americans and other citizens had to leave while Rezko and Obama buddies bought the condemned properties and flipped them for huge profit.
3) As a state legislator Obama was the only one that voted yes for a bill that would allow failed abortion viable fetuses to be thrown into linen closets and allowed to die in that manner.
4) Obama lied about working with Ferrakahn in the million man march, even though the chicago tribune had his name printed on it as a manager/organizer being thanked by Ferrakahn himself.
5) Obama was at a dinner with Khalidi where member of the audience read poems advocating the death of Israel. Did Obama condemn this? The los angeles times to this day will not release the tape, even after McCain publicly pleaded for its release in 2008. Hmm, makes sense now in 2012 his policies concerning Israel.
6) His failed attempt to make gun sellers be banned from selling arms when fast and furious blew up in his face

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David Taylor

10:01 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

Why bother even trying to have a serious discussion of voting issues (machines or process) or about the Scott Walker Tea Party squad invading and attacking the Maryland roles... all you folks here seem to care about is pecking at each other like a bunch of old hens.

Enjoy yourselves... this is below even my low standards, and I've been online since the 80's.

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DARRELL HAMMERBACKER

7:58 am on Wednesday, June 6, 2012

The Maryland Democratic Machine which owns this State have loaded the Voter Rolls with Illegal Aliens and People living in Greenmount and German Hill Cemeterys for Years.And their is nothing anybody can do about it because the Judicial System in this state is loaded with their Liberal appointed Judges.When people at the DMV are caught giving out ID's to New Americans what do you expect!

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